"To whom is it important? A segment of our tax paying public that does not believe in animal research for medical reasons; do you think they believe you should band birds, count birds etc.?"

I believe that it should be important to all people that care about the future of avian populations. The general taxpayer probably does not care, but that is one reason the birds are in trouble in the first place.


"Ah ha! If the scientists decide that a “population is in trouble” it is OK to engage in standard practices that WILL result in injury and mortality; however, if a photographer wants that super close shot then the scientist asks if it is necessary!"

Who else is going to decide? The birds can not do it. When you say "WILL result in injury and mortality" that is a strong statement. Most birds that are banded live long healthy lives. The injury and mortality is an occasional occurrence. What scientist are asking if the super close shots are necessary?


NOW, let's go back to your initial question:
"Do you think that the information is valuable that is obtained from banding/ringing?"

I would suggest that your question assumes too much on your behalf and on behalf of your readers.

First, in asking the question in the manner in which you have, you want everyone to assume that the information is valuable and explain why it isn't.

I do not want everyone to assume that the information is valuable. I just want to know the opinions of the information. Do we need it or not?

Secondly, you have failed to identify "the informa- tion" you or anyone should evaluate as being or not being valuable.

Therefore, if you want to have a discussion about the value of banding and the information obtained from banding, please tell us what information you believe is obtained from banding, why you believe it is valuable, and to whom do you believe it is valuable.
You are asking different levels of photographers to provide you with their opinion whether the results of avian research is or isn't valuable.

Please provide a summary of the results of the research you consider valuable, and we will attempt to tell you whether - in our avian uneducated opinion - we also consider that result valuable and justifying banding.

I did assume that people that were opposed to banding did know what the banding was for. My apologies. Information that is obtained includes movement/migration patterns, population trends, dispersal of young, survival, sex ratios, breeding success, growth rates, body condition over time, and distribution of species to name the major ones.

I believe that this information is vital in protecting avian populations from problems(most caused by man). If we know nothing about the birds we love so much then how do we protect them or even manage areas for them.

Concluding, by the way, with your statement "others against banding", where in any of the posts did any of the posters specifically say they were against banding?
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christopher galeski wrote "Thanks Artie for starting this thread,I have always been against banding (RINGING) IN THE UK.They still ring birds here that they know every thing about,sowhy do they keep traping them to ring.Allit does is cause birds a lot of stress,and in some cases death.thanks."

I am in know way am saying the system is perfect. I too wish there was a way to do this without causing stress to the birds. I think that overall, a breif stress from being captured, banded, and released is much less important to argue about than the real stresses that are being placed upon birds. Habitat loss, climate change, vehicle collisions, wind farms, building collisions are all having more of an impact on the birds than scientist or photographers. Do not forget that I am both.