Difficult lighting...

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Glenn Pure

Glenn Pure

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
1,667
Location
Canberra, Australia
IMG_4266-BPN.jpg

Hi all, I'd be very grateful for views on lighting adjustments for this shot. Problem is the dark head against dark background. But I need the dark background to contrast with the white of the bird. With thanks in advance.

Capture details: Canon 80D with EF 100-400 MkII at 400mm handheld. Manual exposure 1/800 sec, f7.1, ISO 800. Processed in Canon DPP 4 (digital lens optimiser, crop, lighting adjustments, default NR) then exported 16 bit TIFF to Photoshop Elements with Neat Image NR plugin. Very light NR applied to bird and stronger NR to background. I've lightened shadows on the background and bird's head but may not have gone far enough? Sharpened (Sharpness tool) after final size reduction. Bird is an Australian White Ibis photographed at Lake Curalo, Eden NSW in dawn light
 
Glenn, exposure looks fine, sharpness, BG and HA, ok. There looks like some color fringing around the top of the head and you might want to cool the image down a bit for more of a pop.
This could pass for a picture taken at dusk which is fine if that's what it looked like and what you want to portray. As far as lighting adjustments you did well for what you had.

-Tim
 
Hi Tim, thank you for your advice on this. It was a dawn shot but you may have missed this detail. I wanted to keep the warm light but will have a play with toning it down a little too. I will also look at that fringing on the head which I hadn't picked up.
 
Glenn Pure said:
Hi Tim, thank you for your advice on this. It was a dawn shot but you may have missed this detail. I wanted to keep the warm light but will have a play with toning it down a little too. I will also look at that fringing on the head which I hadn't picked up.
Click to expand...

Glenn, I didn't miss that detail, as I stated it could "pass" for a "shot taken at dusk" because of the warm tones and only suggested that you might want to alter the look by adjusting the white balance to maybe bring out some of the other colors.
Unfortunatly there are shadows that take away from this image and maybe waiting for a different angle or light would have beneficial.

-Tim
 
Glenn, Beautiful bird and great focus, especially HH with a 1/800 SS. I had to look, even for a nit, and the one I found is some white spots I might have taken out. The vertical white line on the left of the frame can be distracting, and the larger white spot above the plants. A few more under the tail. You might well prefer them and I'm raising a point you've already considered. Thank you for posting this beautiful image.
 
Thank you Jim - I agree the white and pale blobs on the water could go and produce a better result.

And thank you again Tim for your clarification and additional critique. Please accept my apologies for me not 'getting' the drift in your original response. In case you are curious about that little bluish cap on the head, it is present in the original raw file but less obvious. It looks like it might be some fine hairs that are showing up as blue in the shadow. Will try to tone that down.
 
Hi Glenn ,Love the picture of the Ibis. I have been shooting some White Faced Ibis in flight.On your pic the shadows in the background don't bother me too much. I did see the fringing around the head after Tim pointed it out.I would maybe clone out some of the small white artifacts especially the ones on the left. I like the head angle nice to see some interaction with the bird versus just same old head angles that we have come used too. Anytime we can get a bird do something is a big plus.I know in my instance after we take a shot sometimes I wish I could go back and have another chance.What I like about Tims comments and the forum is we get different perspectives that help us.I would be interested in seeing Tims suggestions on the white balance and see how much difference it would make. Looking forward to seeing more.
 
Kevin, thanks for your explanations - I appreciate you taking the time (same to Tim and Jim). As a new member, I'm still learning how the site works. As requested, the re-worked images also with white/light blobs and streaks removed as per Jim's suggestions. I think the more neutral WB works too. As for preference, I still like the warmer one... but ask me tomorrow and I might give you a different answer!

IMG_4266-BPN-v2.jpg
 
Wow Glenn. I really like this . The bird definitely pops or stands out more. I am with you I like both just two different ways of looking at it. The first one exhibits that early morning glow. The second one pops out more with the whites. Both great pics. Cleaning up also helps not having those distracting white artifacts.Also the second one has subdued the shadows which I like more.
 
I just came back to look at this beautiful photograph. And it's worth the work you're putting into it. Thank you for sharing this with us, and I look forward to more. The light on the bird's head and beak is wonderful.
 
Glenn so many questions about WB and warmth for me of late,what a joy to read through and ponder this is,very informative thread All the while tempered with this gorgeous image. Love the way you have explored this Glenn I love the warmth of early or late light(or late that matter). So the first edit is very appealing,but the striking simplicity of the second and the way the bird pops I feel is better for me. Glenn ,mate ,that really surprises me. Sometimes it is so hard to be sure on what is best for an image but in this case that fight within me is doubled . Glenn what do you have at the base is the reflection scuppered by vegetation?

Fabulous Glenn so much beauty and that exploration, fine work mate


stu
 
Stu, thanks for your comments and observations. Yes, the smudge bottom right is OOF vegetation poking out of the water (similar to the samphire next to the bird). I'm warming (pun intended) to the revised WB version now although it was not what I had in mind when I captured this. I know what you are saying about this.
 
IMG_4266-BPN-v2-Edit.jpg
  • Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6.12 (Macintosh)

Hi Glenn, this has some cracking qualities and a huge amount of potential.

Glenn, sorry I just realised you use DPP, so I guess what is below now is redundant, but can you still make a virtual copy of the RAW and then work the BKG on one, Export as a Tiff, then on the copy work on the Subject and export, then drag & drop to make a layered Tiff and combine?

How about this:

- Yes, get the WB right then you can take it in which ever way you want, warmer/cooler, but...
- OP look at the amount of Blue coming through in the image in the whites, kill that, surprised no one spotted that
- Now get the BKG looking right, forget about the subject, just the BKG then export as a Smart object, click back to LR
- Now click back through the history to get back to where you you had the correct WB and now work on the subject, forget the BKG, once you are happy send it as a Smart object too, hopefully you will have one PS Tiff (PSD) file with two layers, BKG & Subject, now mask combine and you can then continue on.

OK, it's a bit brief in it's explanation, but Exporting to PS as a Smart Objects and double process may help here and avoid a few headaches?

I don't think they are absolutely right, but the two RP's may give some additional thoughts.

Cheers
Steve
 
Last edited:
Steve, thank you for your time and effort on this image. I do see qualities in it that I like a lot too. I can also see what you are suggesting: independent changes to WB on background and bird. I often do this on lighting but not WB. I do like the warmer light on the background in your RP. However, I do want to retain some residual of that on the bird so would not go far as your final post on that. Generally, I do like what you have done here and I have a workflow for dealing with shots where I change the RAW processing and combine the original and revised version (using layers and layer masks). I will give this a try but probably not repost as I think your final post is close to what I'd do anyway (except for me retaining a bit more warmth on the bird).

Many thanks yet again!
 
Hi Glenn, There is certainly lots of learning going on here :) My very favorite version is Stu's repost in Pane #14. What is the bird and where was it photographed?

My problem with this image has much more to do with the direction of the light than with the color of the light. All of the (rather unpleasant) shadows and the problematic bright WHITEs are because you were about 90 degrees off of sun angle with the light coming from the hard right ...

Could you have gotten well to your right?

with love, artie
 
Arthur Morris said:
Hi Glenn, There is certainly lots of learning going on here :) My very favorite version is Stu's repost in Pane #14. What is the bird and where was it photographed?

My problem with this image has much more to do with the direction of the light than with the color of the light. All of the (rather unpleasant) shadows and the problematic bright WHITEs are because you were about 90 degrees off of sun angle with the light coming from the hard right ...

Could you have gotten well to your right?

Artie, with huge respect,I must correct you. the repost is not my work I am not capable of this yet sadly. It is Mr Kaluski whom has made this edit,although I'd love to and one day will be able to do this,there is no credit here Artie,bless ya though:S3:,oh I wish Artie !!

take care

stu
Click to expand...
 
Arthur Morris said:
Hi Glenn, There is certainly lots of learning going on here :) My very favorite version is Stu's repost in Pane #14. What is the bird and where was it photographed?

My problem with this image has much more to do with the direction of the light than with the color of the light. All of the (rather unpleasant) shadows and the problematic bright WHITEs are because you were about 90 degrees off of sun angle with the light coming from the hard right ...

Could you have gotten well to your right?

with love, artie
Click to expand...

Hi Artie, the bird is an Australian White Ibis - details at the very bottom of the original post - taken on a coastal lake in southern New South Wales (about 6 hrs drive south of Sydney, or 3 from where I live). No chance of me getting a different angle on this shot, unfortunately. I was on the very furthest point I could get to in that direction. I actually liked the light angle, the shadows and highlights in this but accept your depth of experience suggests I should rethink this.

PS, white ibis aren't much loved here - they are fairly common and often found scavenging garbage and scraps in urban areas and rubbish tips, with filthy plumage to match. However, prejudice can often get in the way of seeing beauty.
 
Hi Glenn, Thanks for the species. It is very similar to Sacred Ibis that I have photographed in Kenya and Tanzania. As for the shadows (harsh, as here, even in sweet light especially with B&W subjects) they are your call. I avoid them like the plague.

with love, artie

ps: sometimes you gotta ask yourself, "What does he know?"
 

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