Young Black Skimmer bank shot

[Dorian Anderson]

• Canon EOS 5D Mark IV
• EF600mm f/4L IS II USM
• ƒ/5
• 600mm
• 1/3200s
• ISO 320
• DANIEL STEIN DJSPHOTOVIDEO.COM 973-303-1287
• Flash not fired
• Thu, 01 November 2018 6:54 PM
• Daniel Stein djsphotovideo.com 973-303-1287
• Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6.14 (Macintosh)

There have been quite a few of these at my local spot lately, and the muted afternoon light the last two days has facilitated
their exposure.

This is a young bird as evidenced by the browner plumage. You can see the adult black starting to molt in on the back.

The bottom part of the frame is sun-drenched hills on the other side of the bay; the top is sky.

Yeah, the left wing is really close to the frame edge, but I decided to leave it as rather than adding any space above.
I love how long their wings are!

Canon 600mm f/4 IS II on EOS 5D Mark IV
1/3200 at f/5, ISO 320, handheld
Processed in LR CC without trickery

 

[Isaac Grant]

Looks excellent Dorian. Everything you cold want in an action frame. I have seen thousands of photos of these guys skimming by. To me this is far more interesting. Perfect top side view, head angle and the open beak rocks! Varied background is great as well. You are putting all out there on notice as to how good the 5d4 is for action when in the right hands. Crop is spot on as well and I am fine with no photoshop trickery.

 

[David Roach]

Beautiful top view and HA. Hand holding a 600mm f4, oh to be young again! TFS

 

[annmpacheco]

Awesome Dorian, so well done and I love a juvenile, this has just the sweet mix of white feather tips that really define the primaries, secondaries, etc, ... HA is perfect and engaging =with the open beak. Also the BG adds yet another level of interest. I also own a 5DMIV and would really appreciate knowing your choice of AF pattern on BIF? Also, would you share your settings (tracking sensitivity, accelerate/decelerate tracking, and AF point auto switching...)? Just curious, are you a back button focus guy? Thanks

 

[Arthur Morris]

Ditto all the positives above. May we assume that this is a crop from a horizontal original? I am amazed that the far wing looks twice as long as the near wing.

For me there is too much room behind the bird; why not crop to 2X3 with the bird back a bit in the frame?

with love, artie

 

[Dorian Anderson]

Awesome Dorian, so well done and I love a juvenile, this has just the sweet mix of white feather tips that really define the primaries, secondaries, etc, ... HA is perfect and engaging =with the open beak. Also the BG adds yet another level of interest. I also own a 5DMIV and would really appreciate knowing your choice of AF pattern on BIF? Also, would you share your settings (tracking sensitivity, accelerate/decelerate tracking, and AF point auto switching...)? Just curious, are you a back button focus guy? Thanks

Thanks for the kind words, Ann, and here's my story with the 5D4. I almost always use single/center point focus, but will occasionally go with 4 expanded points, mostly when I can get all of them onto a subject. I haven't played around much with the zone-sorts of features, mainly because I feel the number 1 thing in shooting BIF is lens handling and practice.

Tracking sensitivity is always at -2. This parameter and value makes much experimental and intuitive sense to me.

Accel/Decel I haven't really figured out. Most of the time I leave it at 0, but recent experimentation suggests bumping it to +1 or +2 can help
with birds that are coming at or partially at the camera (as opposed to perfectly perpendicular across the front of it). I don't fully understand this
parameter though.

AF point switching I leave at zero, mostly because I'm using single point so much of the time.

I use back button focus.

I have managed some really nice flight frames with the 5D4, but it misses A LOT. I'm really lucky
in that I have a good local spot 10 mins away, I've taken the time to really learn how the birds
behave on every single tide throughout the year, and I can get out and shoot almost every afternoon.
So, while I'm posting what I think are strong shots, I feel like I'm leaving many, many more on the
bay because of slow/inconsistent AF. Constant pumping of the back button works sometimes but
fails on more occasions.

My body history should be mentioned. I started with the 7D, and later added 1DIV. Those were
eventually replaced with 7D2 and 5D4 - respectively - and that's what I carry now. The point is
that I've never used/shot either the DX or DX2, so I don't how they compare. If we listen to Artie,
Arash, David, and the other recent Nikon converts, they'll probably say the DXs are better than
my 5D4 but struggle to hold focus in ways that their new Nikon bodies don't (hence their switches).
I'm not going to make a similar switch for several reasons, money being the first. I also feel that
bodies come and go, and Canon will eventually make something better than the DX2 and maybe even
better than the D850. In the meantime, I'll keep an awesome lens collection of 100-400 II, 400 DO II,
and the recently added 600 II. The question I have for everyone is the DX or DX2 a worthy upgrade to
my 5D4, particularly for flight work? I was unwilling to ask this question prior to the purchase of my
600 II, but with that focal length in my clutches the DX or DX2 makes more sense than it did with my
500. Most of my flight work with the 5D4 has been with the naked 600, and I've found it really hard to
get sharp shots of shorebirds with the TC on that body. Slower moving and/or bigger birds might be easier,
but shorebirds IF are my reference at this point.

OK, enough. I've officially Hijacked my own thread with tech and gear talk. Would love to hear what all of
you have to say.

 

[Dorian Anderson]

Cuz I love you......

Ditto all the positives above. May we assume that this is a crop from a horizontal original? I am amazed that the far wing looks twice as long as the near wing.

For me there is too much room behind the bird; why not crop to 2X3 with the bird back a bit in the frame?

with love, artie

• Canon EOS 5D Mark IV
• EF600mm f/4L IS II USM
• ƒ/5
• 600mm
• 1/3200s
• ISO 320
• DANIEL STEIN DJSPHOTOVIDEO.COM 973-303-1287
• Flash not fired
• Thu, 01 November 2018 6:54 PM
• Daniel Stein djsphotovideo.com 973-303-1287
• Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6.14 (Macintosh)

 

[Arthur Morris]

Th 2X3 crop in the repost looks a lot better to me than the boxy original.

with love, artie

 

[Ian McLachlan]

Dorian this is great .You got good DOF even though the near wing is well angled towards you.The background tops it off.
I have recently changed to the dark side [D5plus 500 f4vr fl +1.4] as for me BIF are the ultimate challenge and fast raptors/peregrines particularly so. The difference is that the D5 seems to hang on to the subject once you are on it ,
even when the bird is flying straight towards you at 70mph. The female peregrine I posted earlier this week I would not have got with my 1DX and there are plenty of sharp frames as she was trying to tell me to buzz off.
I loved the Canon lenses, but at 82 I couldn't wait for Canon to do something with the camera that Nikon did nearly 4 plus years ago now. The next thing for us geriatrics is how good is the PF 500 at 700mm for BIF.?
David Salem has explained this in a couple of his posts and I'm glad I took his advice.

 

[Isaac Grant]

Dorian do you ever shoot BIF situations with the full center zone? In single point or surround the camera does not track moving subjects and it requires you to be spot on the middle of the bird. But in zone the camera will track the bird and the focus points will move around the sensor and track the bird. Should make keeping focus far easier.

 

[John Mack]

Great frame. Love everything about this one. I love single point i can put the point right where i want. I don't really ever try birds in flight. Once in awhile though.

 

[Arthur Morris]

I have managed some really nice flight frames with the 5D4, but it misses A LOT.

Hi Dorian, Thanks for generously sharing your Canon AF settings with Ann and the group. The single comment above is, however, most telling. Yes, Canon folks on occasion make some great flight images. Simply put, Canon AF with birds in flight is terribly inconsistent. Recently Isaac has been quick to praise some fabulous Canon flight images ... After 35 years of using Canon gear and 19 years as a Canon Explorer of Light, I switched to Nikon in January 2018. At San Diego I held the cheap, inferior Nikon 200-500 in my hands and focused on a flying pelican. The difference was so astounding that I decided to go to the dark side in three seconds, without ever pushing the shutter button and without even seeing a single image on my laptop ... My initial thoughts have proven to be correct. Nikon AF is so consistent that when I do get an image that is not sharp on the eye, I am astounded.

I do not care at all what gear folks are using. And for many applications (especially super-telephoto AF performance with TC-Es), the Canon gear is far better than the Nikon stuff. But for me, for flight photography, Nikon AF slays Canon AF. If it was a prizefight, they would stop it at the weigh in ... And to think that I always thought that I was simply a lousy flight photographer.

with love, artie

 

[Isaac Grant]

I am quick to praise great images made with any system that deserve it. Actually I praised Ian's Peregrine shot with the D5 twice :c3: Interestingly I had a long conversation with one of the Canon executives at the photo expo in Manhattan last week about Canon autofocus and how it compares to Nikon for bird applications. Also about the settings to use for tracking. He said and confirmed what I have always thought that for all tracking, the Canon cameras are designed to only track on full center zone or full zone. The camera does not track using center point, center and four surrounding or center and 8 surrounding. Just have to be really good and get the bird in the center of the frame when using those settings. Long story short Dorian, set the camera to full center zone and see how you do and let us know. Seems you have a great spot to check this as you have repeated opportunities, close to home and much experience using only center point to compare results and consistency.

 

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Isaac,

Thou does protest too much:

You are putting all out there on notice as to how good the 5d4 is for action when in the right hands.

And You’re nailing shots with the 5d4 that I haven’t seen other people get.

Just so you know, Arash used only center Surround (with 8 surrounding AF points).

with love, artie

ps: taken at face value the Canon executive's statement is patently absurd. Just sayin'

 

[Isaac Grant]

Nobody, including Arash got flight images like this using the 5d4 that i have seen posted.

Why is the statement absurd? I dont’t get it. It is 100% accurate. Center and surrounding points do not track, they onky hold focus and require the operator to keep the bird dead center and in one of the 1, 5, or 9 points. While in zone that is not the case at all and the camera tracks and follows the subject.

 

[David Salem]

Wow Dorian, This is awesome!! Love the vertical pose and the fact that the beak is wide open and it has a great HA too. That beak is way cool. Beautiful details and BG too. Well done.

Thanks for being honest on your observations about the way you are getting these shots. I knew exactly what was going when I saw you posting these great shorebird images.

You are pushing thru the AF inconsitencies with tons of repetition. You have a great location with lots of birds and you hit it most every evening. You must have missed hundreds or thousands of great frames to come up with the few nice ones you have been posting. To think or state that the 5dIV is a great action or flight body would be stretch.

I have thousands of awesome images I have captured with Canon gear but I also shoot more in a month than most people do in a year. With Canon it's all about shooting a lot, living with the frustrations of the ones you missed, and living off of the few great ones you get.

I will honestly say that when you do get a great shot with a pro Canon system, there is nothing better! That being said, if you miss 75% of the action and fight shots due to the inferior AF, the tiny difference isn't with it.

Glad you have a nice spot to hang out in the evenings. I use BC the same way.

Hope to see ya soon

 

[Dorian Anderson]

Yes, David is correct. I am brute forcing these results. These frames are the exception, not the rule with my 5D4. I will be curious to try Isaac's center zone suggestion when
I get back from guiding at the Rio Grande Birding Festival Nov 7-11 (tides are wrong the next few days).

Has anyone used 5D4 and 1DX/DX2? I curious what I might be able to gain AF-wise over my 5D4 with either those bodies. I'm most specifically interested in the DX as prices
have fallen to 2K. If I could double or triple my success rate for 2K, I'd probably be happy with that. Again, a complete switch to Nikon is not a financial option.

 

[Isaac Grant]

Dorian i have never shot with a 5d4 but have owned both the 1dx and 1dx mark 2. Despite what just about everyone else says (or maybe everyone else), the Canon cameras do not actively track outside of zone. Do they auto focus? Sure. Do they actively track movings subjects? Absolutely not! I 100% stand by this and think that anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong. And i know that many on this site will have a problem with that statement. Put the camera in zone and you will watch the focus points move around the sensor and track the birds. This will never happen using center point or expand. If you want better auto focus for moving subjects and you are not using zone then I do not think you will get better results with a 1dx or dx2. The Nikon group focus works differently than the Canon zone does. You select 4 points and if you keep the bird in elipse in the viewfinder the camera will keep the bird in focus and not jump off of it but you will not see the points moving. With Canon zone you will see the focus points jumping around and following the bird. They do it against blue skies and also busy backgrounds. I have tried out a d850 a few times recently to get a feel for the Nikon focus system and how it works. Now I am not saying that the Canon zone is better than the Nikon group at tracking birds, nor am I saying that it is better at staying locked on to the birds and not jumping off the bird, what I am saying is that if you are not using zone for flight photography then you are not comparing apples to apples and there is not doubt about it. You will have to get used to the moving focus points which can be a bit unnerving but it is the way that Canon tracks.

 

[greg cowle]

Dorian, I hesitate to join this as the topic seems as polarized as American politics, and I am by far from the most experienced. And I am more of a wildlife generalist than an avian photographer, but with a focus on action. That said, I have both 5D4 and 1DXII, and they are not at all close for action in my opinion. The 5D4 is very sluggish in response compared to the 1DXII. I am not sure if it all the processor, but there are 2 other very significant parameters, you get twice as many shots per second in your burst with the 1, and it has an virtually unlimited buffer, so you don't have to hesitate. So you will get more keepers. For BIF I have historically mostly used expansion, but I have in recent times experimented with center zone , and it is really good in the right circumstances. With point or expansion the focus will track, but your tracking on the bird has to be better. I think I know your location, I think zone would work well there as it is unobstructed. Worth the experiment.

 

[arash_hazeghi]

Awesome Dorian, open beak and the fanned tail makes it for me.



As for 1DXII and even the 1DX compared to the 5D4 I'd say it is a significant difference in AF speed, especially with the extender. My 5D4 was useless for flight with the 2X III extender, but the 1DXII was usable. What will unfortunately not improve much is the AF consistency, it will miss a lot just like the 5D4 but since it shoots at 14fps you end up with more keepers. If BIF is your main focus I'd definitely step up to a 1DXII without hesitation, better yet switch to Nikon. it might be more $$$ but it's the best $$$ you spend, understand why you don't want to do it now though. Next time I am there will give you the Nikon to use.